catwinchester:

miskiett:

edge-of-silvermoon:

juliabohemian:

lokiloveforever:

edge-of-silvermoon:

juliabohemian:

philosopherking1887:

illwynd:

me: seeing a post where thor fans insult loki and loki fans and say they don’t want thor to ever interact with loki on screen again

and loki fans replying by insulting thor and thor fans and saying they don’t want thor to ever interact with loki on screen again

i think neither of y’all actually understand your “fave” character much do you

I understand the Loki fans’ POV far more, but I still can’t get behind the “Thor has only been bad for him and he should extricate himself from his relationship with Thor entirely” attitude.

I’m just repeating what @illwynd has said before, but: watch how they interact in Thor: The Dark World. Thor trusts Loki, and Loki lives up to that trust. Thor swears up and down that he doesn’t trust Loki, but he’s full of it. Watch his actions. He trusts Loki. That movie shows Thor and Loki working together, fighting together, trusting each other, neither sacrificing his individuality to the other’s demands. Their plan takes advantage of Loki’s distinctive talents: the ability to cast illusions and lie convincingly; the unexpected double-cross. Even his heroic self-sacrifice is very much in his own style: while (apparently fatally) impaled, he has the ingenuity and presence of mind to use his proximity to turn on Kurse’s own black hole grenade.

The mutual trust, the casual bickering, the cooperative strategic use of their complementary abilities: that, we can imagine, is what their relationship was like before Thor’s selection as heir caused his head to swell to the size we see in Thor 1.

I think for me personally…I would say that up until the end of TDW I was on board with Loki and Thor emerging as a unit. Because it was that relationship that drew me in to begin with. Two things changed my position: Thor’s treatment of Loki in Ragnarok and Chris Hemsworth’s attitude towards the previous Thor films and the franchise in general. Both rubbed me the wrong way. The second made me realize that if CH felt a certain way about Loki, that his attitude would inevitably show through in any interaction between their characters from that point on. It made me wonder if perhaps the only chance Loki has for genuine recovery is to get away from Thor altogether.

When someone is actively trying to recover from trauma, they are usually advised to cut ties with anyone who is either not in favor of their recovery or actively working against it. Ragnarok Thor qualifies on both accounts. When someone is in a dysfunctional relationship with another person and tries to change the status quo, the other party often resists in order to maintain that status quo. And that’s not even addressing the fact that Thor has yet to acknowledge Loki’s trauma. But that is the basis for my position on the matter.

This is why my most ideal situation is actually a new actor playing Thor, and getting rid of any traces of Ragnarok in the mean time. Though I admit this is nearly impossible, but if we are talking about “what I really wish” and not “what’s realistically going to happen”, I definitely WANT a new Thor, and a Thor and Loki relationship that’s on the “right path” instead of the UNACKNOWLEDGED dysfunctional mess that it is now.

Totally agree. I never, ever hated Thor, and at the end of The Dark World it seemed like Thor had made strides to understand Loki, and it felt like there was hope that their relationship really would be healed. But then Ragnarok happened and it just completely crushed that hope. It was a game changer for me as well, because I can never see Thor or CH the same way again. Knowing this is how CH wants Thor to treat Loki – humiliated, belittled and inequal, below him – is a real eye-opener and a total turn off for me of the character and the actor. And that’s why I would rather not have Thor in Loki’s show at all.

I can never see Thor or CH the same way again. Knowing this is how CH wants Thor to treat Loki – humiliated, belittled and inequal, below him – is a real eye-opener and a total turn off for me of the character and the actor.

This is exactly how I feel. I loved Thor up until the end of TDW. I was excited for the potential reconciliation between he and Loki. Ragnarok ruined all of that. CH’s own comments about the franchise were just the icing on the cake.

Now I can’t even look at MCU Thor now without thinking of what CH thought privately regarding Loki, especially the shorthair version of Thor. It really ruined Thor for me. I have stopped looking at any fan art with shorthair Thor, and even longhair Thor has to be drawn in such a way that his facial expression doesn’t resemble CH at all for me to be able to enjoy the art.

Yeah to all this.

The problem with Thor is not that Thor was or is an asshole in some ways, it’s that his story ended with him remaining an asshole, in fact even regressing and becoming worse. I wouldn’t be so bothered by the character remaining flawed if it wasn’t done inadvertently; it seems to have happened because the people in Marvel, writers directors actors or whoever, are ignorant of the characters issues or even worsening them by unconsciously projecting. They don’t realise and expect this character to be accepted as a hero, which most people do because they don’t analyse the story much. Consequently they are normalising the dysfunction. There is an awful lot of blindness and lack of acknowledgement with Thor.

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My issue with Thor is not that he was manipulated by Odin, but that he remained manipulated by Odin.

It makes Thor stupid because he needs Odin to direct him (and a big gripe with Thor was that he wasn’t seen as being that bright.) Imo in TR he was written to appear smarter by making the other characters dumber. Thor could be smarter by accurately analysing his problems for himself and addressing them in a heroic way, not just curb stomping everything and needing Odin for help.

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My issue with Thor is not that he was dismissive to Loki’s issues, but that he remained dismissive of Loki’s issues.

Thor never realized how hypocritical his judgments of Loki are once juxtaposed with his idealisation of Odin. I mean come on, Odin never acknowledged or paid for his own sins and just pretended they never happened, unlike Loki who did acknowledge what he did was wrong. Thor’s address and speech to Loki telling him to improve, was also laced with the original degradation, humiliation and label of “innately lacking worth until you obey Odin/Thor,” the same treatment which led to Loki losing it in the first place.

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I guess I just had high standards for Thor because he is the main character and he is a more traditional, strong and powerful masculine hero who normally takes a leadership role. I would feel unsafe with a leader who had that much power and was that blind to one person’s sins and another person’s suffering. Thor lost some of his heroic qualities in TR.

That’s why I feel bad for Loki and feel disappointed for Thor.

You put it so well @miskiett

The whole point of Thor 1 was Thor learning not to be a warmongering asshole and becoming a true selfless hero. 

Thor 2 was about him coming out from his father’s shadow and doing what was right, regardless of what his king (ie, the law) said. He even outgrew the throne he had lusted after because he now understood the harsh truth about ruling.

You could literally chart his progress and the growth in his wisdom over the Thor and Avengers movies (although he obviously has less growth in the Avengers as it was a group vehicle). 

Ragnarok was a total regression on both those character arcs. 

The only growth Ragnarok showed was Thor realising that he was more than just his hammer and learning to harness his powers. 

Even then, he needed daddy to help him AND that still wasn’t enough to kill the villain! What was the point in his learning to harness the lightning? And just because there wasn’t enough salt rubbed into the gaping wound of Thor’s character development, he spends 90% of the next movie hunting for an axe, because apparently now he does need a weapon to be powerful!!! WTF?

There really was no point to Ragnarok from Thor’s POV. He simply regressed to the shitty person he was in Thor 1, except he humiliated himself for laughs a lot more.

They completely fucked over their own main character just for shits and giggles.